248: Those Beyond the Wall
This week we discussed Those Beyond the Wall, written by Micaiah Johnson and narrated by Angel Pean.
Those Beyond the Wall (Narrated by: Angel Pean): March 12, 2024 [Libro.fm] / [OverDrive/Libby] / [Audible]
The Space Between Worlds [Libro.fm] / [Overdrive/Libby] / [Audible]
Interview with Micaiah Johnson [Episode 240]
Funny Boy: The Richard Hunt Biography (Written By: Jessica Max Stein)
”2024 Compton Crook Award Finalists” [Locus]
Transcript
This is Narrated, a podcast about audiobooks and a celebration of storytelling. I'm Scott Ullery.
And I'm Lisa McCarty.
This time on Narrated, we'll be discussing Those Beyond the Wall, written by Micaiah Johnson and narrated by Angel Pean.
Wow, last week might have been my favorite book week of the year, because my two most anticipated books of the year came out. Those Beyond the Wall is one of them, and the other is Funny Boy. I wanted to wish a huge happy book birthday to Funny Boy by Jessica Max Stein, who is a dear friend of mine.
It is the biography of Richard Hunt, one of the original puppeteers of The Muppets. I read an early copy, and it's fantastic. Hunt was a joyful, lovable person, and there's lots of great behind-the-scenes from The Muppets and other Jim Henson productions like Sesame Street and Fraggle Rock, and they're reconstructed from over 100 interviews with Hunt's colleagues, friends, and families.
The audiobook is still to come out, so we'll definitely be talking about it again when that comes out, and for now, I hope that you will check it out if that's something that you're interested in.
I am looking forward to this one as well based on your description. Big fan of The Muppets, and so, yeah, looking forward to reading or listening to this one, and hopefully talking about it again at some future date.
I also wanted to mention an award that I learned more about while I was reading Those Beyond the Wall, which is the Compton Crook Award. It's given for the best English language, first novel in science fiction, fantasy, or horror, and it's presented at Balticon every year, and it's voted on by members of the Baltimore Science Fiction Society. I think I need to pay more attention to this award.
I noticed it because the previous book in the series, The Space Between Worlds, won the award, and when I looked it up, I noticed that last year's winner was The Ballad of Perilous Graves, which was another book I nominated for a Hugo and thought should have gotten more attention. So, I took a look at some of the short lists, and they have some really good stuff on them.
This year's award will be announced on Memorial Day weekend, and the short list includes To Shape a Dragon's Breath by Monacoal Black Goose, which we have also been excited about here on Narrated.
Yeah, and when you mentioned this, I look back, and I mean, looking back at the last 10 years or even further back, there's a lot on here that, you know, I definitely can't argue with, so.
Yeah, so it's a little bit in the spirit of the Astounding Award, although it's for the book and not the author.
And as you pointed out, Scott, when we were talking earlier, a lot of authors might not be eligible for Astounding on their first novel if they've had a short fiction career.
Right.
And so...
Yeah, Locust Awards does also have a best first novel, so l did not check to see...
What The Overlap was.
What The Overlap is. I didn't either. But as we've talked about a lot of times, that's part of the fun of different awards, is hopefully exposing yourself to new books and gets you thinking about books maybe in different ways.
So definitely want to watch. I will just note too that we were literally just looking at it as we're recording that the Nebula finalists just got released as well too. And definitely some familiar names that we've talked about on there.
There's usually at least some, not complete overlap, but there's at least some overlap usually with the Hugos.
And so there's definitely multiple on here that we've talked about before in terms of Saint of Bright Doors and Translation State and Terra Formers and Witch King and even some in the short fiction category too.
I'm having probably paid more attention to the short fiction this year.
It's nice to see the stuff popping up on those lists as well too. And then again, a good excuse to read the stuff that maybe passed by the first time, but to take a look again in award season. Very good.
Do you want to start us off with summary of Those Beyond the Wall?
I would love to. So this book is a sequel to The Space Between Worlds by Micaiah Johnson. Space Between Worlds, I have mentioned before, was my favorite book of 2020.
And I was lucky enough to interview Micaiah Johnson this year at Eresia, which I really appreciate that she was willing to talk to me about her work. And I have been eagerly awaiting Those Beyond the Wall. And it did not disappoint, I will say.
So it's a sequel to Space Between Worlds that's set about 10 years later. It is told from the perspective of a very peripheral character from the first book. We met her a couple of times, a mechanic called Mr. Scales.
All the runners are Mr. regardless of gender. We found out a couple of small tidbits of information about her in The Space Between Worlds, including that she has a crush on the runner Mr. Cheeks, which plays a part in this book too. And it soon becomes clear that she has a stronger connection to many of the other characters than we previously knew.
The premise of the world of this book is that, and this is starting, this is also the story that's from Space Between Worlds. It's a scientist on what he himself dubs Earth Zero, discovers the key to travel between parallel worlds, and people are able to travel between worlds that are similar enough, but they can only travel without danger if they don't exist on the other world.
This means that there's the most danger is to the wealthy, comfortable people who are likely to have survived in many places.
And the traversers, as they're called, are recruited from among those with the worst chances in life, who are likely to have not survived on many worlds. The story takes place in a desert where the poor live exposed to the hostile elements, and the elite live in a climate-controlled indoor city. And at the end of Space Between Worlds, this is going to be a big spoiler.
So if you didn't read it, stop now. Go read it, for goodness sakes, because it's amazing. But at the end of Space Between Worlds, the runners of Ashtown destroyed the means of traveling between worlds on Earth Zero, and it hasn't been restored as of the beginning of Those Beyond the Wall.
And in the beginning of Those Beyond the Wall, there are several simultaneous deaths that appear to be related to world walking. And it points to the possibility that another one of the parallel worlds has developed the technology. And so and then that's there's sort of the the mystery of that to solve.
And also, how do we prevent this from happening and for more, you know, prevent more deaths? The book has most of the same characters in it as Space Between Worlds, but it's reshuffled into a different hierarchy of centrality because of the different point of view. And all of the characters are just incredibly interesting.
They all have secrets. There are lots of revelations along the way that keep you guessing and gasping.
Family relationships are fraught and complex.
And I mean, I would say that it is both. It is such an amazing balance of like really intricate and interesting world building, the sort of larger societal trends that have really have, you know, something to say about the current world. For example, the law enforcement culture in this futuristic city is very much of the moment with parallel, this moment with parallel to the current events in the US.
It's a great example of science fiction kind of taking elements of our culture and putting them in a different context to highlight real issues. But then there's also just wonderful characters who have fascinating lives and struggles and things they've overcome.
Yeah, I mean, I think the characters are some of the interesting aspects of this, especially because you then build in the multiverse element. And I think this series in particular does well. One of the things that a multiverse story can do that I think is really well highlighted in this series is multiverse as a way to look at individual and societal choices and how small and large variations in that can make changes downstream.
And so we see that for multiple characters as well as also, again, the dynamics between kind of the city and those outside the wall. Or I should say those beyond the wall, right?
Right. And there's a slight element of time differences in Space Between Worlds because some of the worlds are kind of time shifted from each other. And so they can get a little bit of a glimpse of possible futures.
This book explores that more, gets a bit wibbly wobbly timey wimey for a while.
Yeah, that was an interesting dynamic there.
Yeah.
The other thing that it's not explored as much in this. I think it was maybe explored a little bit more in the Space Between Worlds, but we do see it here as well as at least at one point pretty heavily lampshaded in this, the different ways of looking at it as either spiritual or scientific.
Yes.
And again, I think I like the way it was approached maybe a little bit more in the Space Between Worlds. It was maybe a little bit more unevenly handled for me in this one, but still a very interesting element in terms of just how different people... I'm always interested in the idea that different characters in a story can look at what's going on and have different interpretations of that.
Again, we got a lot of that I think in the first one in terms of how those different communities looked at parallel universes. Here we get it a little bit more differently in terms of a couple of the characters and how they approach it.
Yeah, but it's not one of those situations like advanced technology looks like magic. It's more like an all of those can be true kind of situation.
Yeah, exactly. And it's how somebody's world, how somebody's existing worldview shapes what they see, which again is tied into some of the other issues that are going on as well.
And I thought the ending was rough but satisfying.
Yeah, I think that's fair without getting into spoilers.
Yeah, I overall enjoyed it. It's interesting because even though it's part of the same world and has a lot of the same characters, in some respects, it's a different kind of story.
Because even though the multiverse element is still part of it, especially as kind of this existential threat that they're kind of dealing with, it really is ultimately more about the dynamics between these groups and between some of the characters. And that's just kind of the impetus to address other issues.
I also thought it was interesting how Kara is a character that we know very well from the previous book. She was the point of view character. And I'm impressed by how Micaiah Johnson was able to write her completely through the outside impressions of a character who barely knows her at all, and make us feel that distance.
Yeah, it's almost jarring at first, because it's like, wait, is that the... Again, given the background on this, I honestly had a moment or two early on of like, oh, wait, are we not in...
Is that not our Kara? Are we in a different...
Is it not our character? Is this a different parallel but close? Yeah.
But then there were clues that, no, I don't think that's it. But like you said, that.. And really, if you think about it, it makes sense.
At first, it's maybe a little bit jarring of like, well, that's not who we see. Well, yeah, because you're following it from a different perspective. So, you know, sorry if this bursts anybody's bubble, but different people have different opinions of you than you have of yourself.
So, sorry. But, you know, that's going to happen. And even where Kara is kind of, has a little bit of like almost legendary status within the world, that doesn't necessarily be that everybody thinks the same of her.
So, which I think kind of once you get through that original aspect of it does make sense.
Yeah, I thought that was really well done.
You know, the other aspect I would say on this is too, is this is one of the, again, one of those cases where they went with a different narrator for the book. And I do think that makes sense because it's a different POV.
Yes. And I thought this narrator did a very good job.
Yeah, I agree. And I think it would have been particularly jarring in this case to use the original narrator because you have scenes where Kara is there.
And so it would have felt very weird, I think, if you had kept the same narrator.
Yeah, although I will say I was surprised by both Adam and Kara's voices who were characters whose voices we heard a lot in the first book.
Yeah, I mean, that is the part that is tricky to then reconcile, you know, and that's always... I mean, you see that sometimes too with dual narration books where..
Right...
that have overlapping characters where it's like, wait, that's a totally different way of playing that character.
So that is tricky. And yeah, I'll have to keep that in mind if, you know, for any future time talking to a narrator that happens to pick up a series, like how you tackle that, because that is a tricky one.
You know, you don't necessarily want to do an impression of the other narrator, but can you get it so that it's a recognizable character still?
Yeah.
Any other thoughts on the production or other thoughts from the story itself?
I don't think so. We were talking about that if, well, do you want to say what you were going to say about rereading?
Oh, yeah. So I think we both reread or relistened to The Space Between Worlds beforehand, and I would definitely recommend that. One, because there is, other than a couple of allusions to stuff, there is definitely no recapping of what happened before.
You need to know it.
You need to know it. And even reading them back to back, there was sometimes had to think about what was going on because of the mechanics of the world and that. I think there was also a couple, I would say, I think it was purposeful, but potential red herrings that were put in there that you might, I don't know if it's pro or con, but you'd miss if you didn't have it right at the time.
But no, I would definitely recommend rereading it and I would definitely recommend starting with The Space Between Worlds. I imagine you could probably follow it, but I just don't think it would be the same experience. I think you need to start there.
Yeah, it's definitely a sequel.
And I was trying to look around. It seemed like people were saying that there's no plans for more in this world and that I didn't necessarily, I think we were both surprised to learn that there was going to be, pleasantly surprised, I should be clear, that there was going to be a sequel to The Space Between Worlds.
It was definitely written in a way that felt like a one-off.
Yeah, exactly.
And very self-contained. But I would say Those Beyond the Wall did a great job of continuing that story.
Yeah, I think it continues in a logical way based on what we saw of the world.
Yes. But like you said, it's a very different story, which I loved.
Yeah, I enjoyed it.
Yeah, I think this one is very likely going to be high in my list this year.
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